FAACT's Roundtable

Ep. 251: Food Allergy Anxiety: The Nervous System's Role

• Season 5 • Episode 251

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In our last conversation with Amanda Whitehouse, PhD, she shared her mission of helping patients and caregivers move beyond food allergy anxiety, fear, and trauma so they can truly live whole and joyful lives. She also touched on the fascinating role the nervous system plays in that healing process. Today, we’re joined by licensed psychologist, Dr. Whitehouse, who’s here to take us on a deeper dive into the impact of the nervous system.

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Caroline: Welcome to FAACT's Roundtable, a podcast dedicated to navigating life with food allergies across the lifespan. Presented in a welcoming format with interviews and open discussions,

each episode will explore a specific topic, leaving you with the facts to know or use.

Information presented via this podcast is educational and not intended to provide individual medical advice.

Please consult with your personal board-certified allergist or healthcare providers for advice specific to your situation.

Hi everyone, I'm Caroline Moassessi and I am your host for the FAACT Roundtable podcast. I am a food allergy parent and advocate and the founder of the Grateful Foodie Blog.

And I am FAACT's Vice President of Community Relations.

Before we start today's podcast, we would like to take a moment to thank Genentech for being a kind sponsor of FAACT's roundtable podcast.

Also, please note that today's guest was not paid by or sponsored by Genentech to participate in this specific podcast.

In our last conversation with Amanda Whitehouse, she shared her mission of helping patients and caregivers move beyond food allergy, anxiety, fear and trauma so they can truly live whole and joyful lives.

She also touched on the fascinating role of the nervous system and the role that it plays in the healing process.

Today we're joined by licensed psychologist Amanda, who is here to take us on a deeper dive into the impact of the nervous system and what to do.

Welcome back, Amanda, to FAACT's Roundtable Podcast. We have just been enjoying you thoroughly on the podcast with you, bringing knowledge, but we had more conversation to have, so that's why you are back here with us so we can continue the conversation.

Amanda: Well, thank you for having me back. There's so much good stuff to talk about with this.

Caroline: Well, we're happy that you're here with us.

In case a listener is new with us today and didn't hear your previous podcast, can you share your background and then how you joined our food allergy family?

Amanda: Sure. So I was a new psychologist, you know, just getting integrated into my field, choosing directions and starting a private practice when my oldest son was diagnosed. And so it naturally just kind of unfolded without intending to specialize in it, that I was connecting with food allergy families and understanding what they were going through and had some insights.

So over time, obviously that has grown as I worked with many, many more families and was able to put our personal knowledge and experiences to hopefully good use.

Caroline: And now you're quite the expert in this area.

Amanda: Well, we learn quickly as moms, don't we? When our kids are thrown into this, you just figure it out as you go and you want to help everybody that you can, because people helped me when I was new and scrambling.

So I'm happy to put it out there. Whatever I've picked up along the way.

Caroline: That is so true. Right. We really just rise to the occasion. And I think that's what makes this community so special, is everyone really does pitch in to help each other and really bring each other through.

I mean, I think of the families who taught me things and supported me and helped me and guided, and then I have the chance to pay that back and pay it forward, and it's really a cool community.

Amanda: I agree. I'm so thankful for it and glad to be a part of it, man.

Caroline: I agree 100%.

So now could you take us deeper into how the nervous system drives change and then why it's such a powerful part of your approach in helping people move through food allergy, anxiety, fear, and trauma.

This seems to be a real specialty for you, and you've got a lot to share.

Amanda: Absolutely. It's a big topic to boil down, but really, I think the basics that people are familiar with is that we have. People will call it kind of our reptile brain or our caveman brain, that we have this kind of ancient part of us that is reactive, that protects us from danger,

as if we are still living in caves and in danger all the time, even though most of us, if we're fortunate, live in a life and a daily routine where we're not in harm's way most of the time.

Now, of course, if you have food allergies,

that's not the case. But even people who haven't necessarily had a traumatic or a potentially dangerous experience or medical situation like that have this part of the brain. So it's a little bit of an oversimplification, but it's helpful nonetheless to think of it in that way, because there's this protective mechanism that we have that will alert us and put us into reaction mode when there's perceived danger,

perceived threat.

But the problem is that most of us go through a life where that's not needed, and yet it's turned on all the time, because we live in this world that's rushing us.

We don't have time. It's overstimulating. You know, we've got news from all around the world when in the past we would have just heard maybe our immediate family and community, instead of knowing every bad thing that's happening all over the world.

So in a way, we're safer than we ever were, and yet we feel more in danger than we probably ever did before. And that system,

it doesn't often learn to turn off when we don't need it on. We live with it on perpetually.

So what I like to help people understand is that when we're really stuck in chronic anxiety, not fear, not a response to something scary, and then we return to baseline.

But if we're chronically feeling on edge or anxious or stressful,

a lot of the things that we think will help with that are not going to be effective, because what we think we need to do is think more positively and change your thought process around this and tell yourself this, and say this to yourself.

Say this to your child.

That can be effective if the trigger is the scary thought, and then that's putting the body into a danger reaction, into a fear reaction. I walked into a room, I was feeling totally calm,

and then I thought to myself, out of the blue,

oh, no, what if there's peanut butter on the surface of that table where my child is going to sit?

That's an example of how an unhelpful thought can trigger an anxious response. But for most of us, that's not how it goes. That thought is in there all the time, circling, kind of bubbling beneath the surface.

And so changing the thought isn't the solution to the problem, because the body's already in fear mode. So once the body's already activated and in a panic response or in a defensive response,

it doesn't matter what you say to it. So to go back to that metaphor of thinking of this as our caveman brains, if a bear was chasing you, or even yet a bear was after your child,

it doesn't matter how many times someone said to you, well, think positively, or, you know what? Bears actually don't like to eat people. They just want to scare you away.

They're being defensive. None of those true calming thoughts are going to turn off the anxiety reaction in your body.

Your body is ready to fight back, and it's not going to respond until your body is safe. And it's told that it's safe in the language that the nervous system speaks, which is not thoughts.

It's not English. It's not what we tell ourselves.

So if you think about your body and what would calm you in that situation,

you know, if a bear was after my kid,

the only thing that would make me feel better is distance from the bear.

The bear. Maybe I'm in a zoo, and the bear's locked behind a cage. So for a second, it startled me, But I can see that it's safely secured and it can't access me, or if the bear was angry and looked like it was attacking, and then it calmed down and it stopped growling and it.

It's visually. And sound stops being so threatening.

That's the language of the body. All those things we're talking about are our senses.

Not our language centers of our brain, but the actual sensory information that we take in through the body.

So that is how we need to tell our body it's safe if it's chronically stuck feeling anxious for it to believe us. Because just saying you're safe, you're safe, you're safe.

When someone is feeling scared actually makes them feel less safe, because then they feel like you don't understand the danger that they're in and that they're not gonna feel protected.

So it's a little bit of a stretch of a metaphor, but I feel like it helps you connect with that response in your body.

Caroline: Oh, no. That was the most perfect explanation. Like, I don't know if you could see. In my head, it was click, click, click, and sorry, listeners, you don't get to see us.

But, I mean, the light bulbs are just flying over the top of my head. I think that bear example is perfect because I've had that before with my son where I was saying things, you're safe, you're safe.

And he's, stop, you're making it worse. And I couldn't figure out what he was saying.

What does he mean? It's like I'm trying to comfort him right now and that everything is going to be fine. We're visiting a family's house, you know, a relative actually, and I was trying to get them to remove the allergens, and I was making him feel worse.

Now I understand,

right?

Amanda: Because even when it is logical, in the example that you are giving, which is different from my very extreme example of danger,

he was safe, you were doing all of the things.

But it doesn't matter, because if his body is perceiving the threat and it's already activated, then the conversation, the words, are not going to cut through that nervous system response.

If you get him to feel safe again and then later, if you can talk about it once he's in calm mode, then he might be able to understand it from the point of view that you were trying to get across to him.

Right. We. We did all these steps. I had conversations with them first. They eliminated this, we checked this. But all of that is just more overstimulation and overload to a brain.

That's not processing. And one of the things that I talked about on the last episode, that if people didn't listen, they could go back and catch it, because I think the two together will be more helpful.

But when you're in this mode of nervous system reactivity, the blood flow to the prefrontal cortex is actually restricted, like,

literally physically getting less blood. So that's why when you're in this mode or when your child is in this mode and they can't process what you're saying,

so any information that you're saying to them is just going to feel like more gibberish and threat.

Caroline: Where were you years ago? That's amazing.

Amanda: I was figuring it out the hard way myself, just like everybody else was doing. Right.

Caroline: So now that we know this, now that the light bulbs are firing on, what's next?

Amanda: Well, it really comes down to learning about and understanding how your nervous system functions,

what the signs are of the different states that your body can be in, and then learning the language that it speaks in. You know, a lot of what we hear in terms of managing food allergy anxiety has to do with what I mentioned at the beginning about changing our thoughts,

using positive coping skills, affirmations, confidence, all of these things that can be helpful when your body is regulated. All of those skills will help you to prevent being activated and going into this fear, fight or flight mode.

But if you're already in fight or flight or a freeze mode, which is when the nervous system is activated and believes that they're danger, as we just said, all of those skills that can be helpful in one scenario are going to make things worse in another scenario.

So when you start to understand how your body responds and the signs of it, and recognize that and respond accordingly, not according to what you think you should be doing or saying, but what either your body or your child's body is telling you, then you can change gears.

So we all know what it feels like. We all know that feeling of panic and the racing heart and the sweatiness and the change in the breathing, and I can't think straight, the shaky hands when I'm pulling the epinephrine out of the bag.

We can all relate to that physical feeling, and we're so, so bad at recognizing it in the moment as an indicator of either how. How we're doing or how the person we love is doing.

Right? It's not rocket science to figure out what it is,

but it takes practice to identify it. And so once you start learning and noticing, you know, if you're Trying to calm your child. And you see those signs, they are shaking, they're talking faster, they're pacing around their room or they're pulling away from you, they're going in the room,

they're slamming the door because they're upset and they're afraid and they say you're not listening. All of those things are signs that their body is activated. All they need in that moment is to be told again in the language of the nervous system that they are safe.

So what that looks and sounds like depends on the age. But all the way up through adults is calm presence of a safe person. Sometimes it's physical touch and affection.

It's a calm, soothing voice, not information,

not a voice listing the reasons that all of the food is safe. And there's not a reaction, but a soothing voice telling them that they're okay. It's, you know, familiar environments, the visual of a familiar environment or object or face can be soothing sound.

The ears are a huge, huge, huge piece of this. And how we can regulate the body because the vagus nerve that controls this actually crosses down into the body through like the vocal cords and the ear canals down in, through the neck and into the body.

So speaking, hearing, activating the vagus nerve through sounds through vocalization can be another way to stimulate it and tell it, everything is okay, I'm safe. And then we can go back to those skills later.

Like I said, you would have done that once your child was calm, then all of those things that you wanted to share with them would have been helpful. About how that dinner or that family meal was safe for them.

It's just a matter of knowing when to use which skill and what that language sounds and looks like to the body.

Caroline: So timing is really huge here, observation, timing. And are there any techniques that can be used to, to get that vagus nerve activated?

Amanda: Absolutely. And most of them are really simple. I'll give a couple specifics, but let me preface it with this. If you understand how the body works in terms of the five senses, think about what's,

what indicates danger as far as one of those body senses and what would indicate safety.

So like I said, one of the most easy to work with is sound. High pitched sounds, low pitched sounds indicate danger, right? A siren, a tire squeaking, a baby screaming at the top of their lungs.

Those are signs that there's danger or an alarm.

Low, low sounds in frequency like a dog growling, thunder rumbling.

Any of those low pitched sounds are a warning or a threat of danger.

So what's the opposite? What's safe to our ears is those middle range sounds like a soothing voice. Right. The voice of our mother is the first thing that usually most of us associate with safety.

And we all naturally talk to our babies in that way when it comes to sounds, as far as using that to regulate our bodies.

A humming noise,

singing in a voice that is obviously not some high pitched squealing sound, not some thunderous male deep baritone voice,

but just like a familiar tune that is in a middle range of voice and that has some melody and some rhythm to it. Those are two great ways. So both hearing it and actually doing it yourself.

And obviously that's something that's really easy to do with your child together.

Humming a note, it doesn't have to be a song, will vibrate the vagus nerve where it does cross down through the ear canal and through the vocal cords. And it actually literally physically stimulates the vagus nerve and then provides that safety signal of sound.

And then if you're doing it with your child, then they've got that safety signal of you connecting with them. You're being regulated as their safe adult.

So the simple act of sitting down and humming or singing with them provides 5, 6 different forms of an indication to them that they are safe and that everything is okay.

Is that clear or am I being too out there with this?

Caroline: This is incredible because these are all simple, accessible tools.

Amanda: So simple.

Caroline: This is amazing.

So now just talking a little more about the nervous system and doing this type of work. Are there limitations on who should be engaging and then how can a listener find a practitioner to maybe help them with this?

Amanda: Sure. So I would argue that everybody should be doing this. This should be part of our wellness. This should be part of everybody's, you know, routine and education and visits to the doctor learning about your nervous system.

And I, I'm a proponent that we should all have a therapist from the day we're born, and then they're familiar to us and then we just have them there when they need us.

Right? But all of our nervous systems, like I said earlier in our discussion, are under attack from the world that we live in. Most of us, those listening to this podcast, most of the people that you and I know personally are pretty safe on a day to day basis.

And yet the world is bombarding us. So we all could use some improvement in our nervous system feeling safe and then understanding it and knowing how it operates.

I would say the concern could be particularly for someone who has a history of trauma, if you start doing nervous system activation, you know, if you are trying to work on this system.

It might be difficult. Some of the body's responses might get stronger. If you have been in a protective mode because you have actually been presented in danger, and then you're trying to tell your nervous system to relax.

For example, someone who's chronically living in an abusive situation,

just, oh, yeah, just. We'll just teach your nervous system to relax. Well, they really need to stay in a protective mode for certain reasons. And so that's kind of a different scenario.

Anybody with a history of trauma might experience some distress when they're doing this. That doesn't mean they shouldn't do it, but that might be a sign that they should find a practitioner, as you said, someone who specializes in it because it is healing.

But it can be distressing. If you start to tell your nervous system to relax, it might say,

no, really, listen to me. I'm not safe. This is dangerous.

It doesn't feel okay. And so you never force it. And sometimes that can be released from the body. You know, people might have strong emotions. They can do a simple thing like a humming activity or a.

Or a nervous system, like a somatic. Shaking is another thing, just literally shaking and moving energy through the body. But you might do that and think, oh, I'm just stressed.

It was a long day. And then you might have a bout of emotion that comes through that was pretty strong that you weren't prepared for. So, again, none of that's dangerous.

But, yes, some support from someone who knows what they're doing can be helpful to many people.

And you can do that by looking for a practitioner who.

Some of the buzzwords that you would look for is a somatic practitioner,

polyvagal informed, trauma informed,

or any kind of bodywork practitioner. So if someone just says, oh, I just do cbt, cognitive behavioral therapy with everyone, this might not be their approach, or they might not be as trained in recognizing,

like we said, when to choose which approach, depending on what's going on with your individual nervous system.

Caroline: Incredibly,

incredibly helpful tips. This is. This is stunning. I'm just absolutely loving this podcast and your information.

So switching gears just for a hot second here. Upon visiting your website, you have a little bit of a teaser up there about upcoming online classes.

Are you able to share any details about that right now?

Amanda: Yes, thank you for asking. Yeah, I am in New York State. State. My therapy practice is always full and I'm always having people want to work with me and finding new ways to do that.

So what I offer from time to time are psycho educational Groups, they're not therapy. I'm not giving you a diagnosis and saying you have this anxiety disorder, but I'm just teaching these skills and working with people to learn the things that you and I are talking about.

So I have one of those going by. The time this airs will be about a weekend, but it's not necessarily too late for people to join us if they want to.

And that's a group specifically for learning about food allergy anxiety and how it shows up in the body and in our relationships and what to do about it. That is an every other week group from September running for five weeks every other week.

And then in December, I'll be having a group that is more specifically focused on a technique called the Safe and Sound Protocol, which is a research based technology based on polyvagal theory developed by the founder of Polyvagal Theory, Stephen Porges, which many people might know about.

Using specially formulated music to access what I was talking about before with the sound frequencies. And it's a tool that you can use and I'll be instructing people on how to do that in that group starting in December.

So it could be one or the other. People can do both if they're interested.

Caroline: Thank you. I just wanted to learn a little more about it. This just went so, so fast. It was amazing. So before we say goodbye today, is there anything else you would like listeners to hear from you?

Amanda: Just keep learning. You know, this can be an overwhelming thing if it's not familiar to you, but little by little, just the more that you learn and the more you try it out at home, the more you'll start to recognize and become familiar with understanding the things that we're talking about as they're happening in the moment and being able to respond a little bit differently and shift your patterns.

Caroline: Well, thank you so much. We look forward to having you again on the podcast later this year. This was just incredible. This could be one of my favorite podcasts of all time.

Just because there's so much actionable information and things that we absolutely can relate to and live with in this food allergy world. So thank you so much for your time.

We really appreciate it. Appreciate you, of course.

Amanda: Thanks so much for having me and for sharing this with everybody who's listening. It's so important.

Caroline: You are very welcome.

Before we say goodbye today, I just want to take one more moment to say thank you to Genentech for their kind sponsorship of FAACT's Roundtable podcast.

Also, I want to note that today's guest was not paid by or sponsored by Genentech to participate in this specific podcast.

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